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11:33 pm
October 28, 2011
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Gallo
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|  Bronze Apple | posts 924 | |
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I saw an entry level S&W AR15 at my local gun store.
These the specs:
Model: M&P15 Sport™
Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO
Capacity: 30 Round Detachable Magazine
Action: Semi-Auto
Barrel Length: 16" / 40.6 cm
Barrel Twist: 1 in 8" 5R Rifling
Front Sight: Adjustable A2 Post
Rear Sight: Magpul® Folding MBUS
Overall Length: 35" Extended / 32" Collapsed
Stock: 6 Position Telescopic
Weight: 6.45 lbs. / 2,925.7 g
Barrel Material: 4140 Steel
Barrel Finish: Melonite®
Receiver Material: 7075 T6 Aluminum
Receiver Finish: Hard Coat Black Anodized
Chromed Components: Gas Key
Bolt Carrier
According to reviews, this AR has the same high end features as other S&W ARs, but it is missing the forward assist and dust cover.
How important are the Forward assist and Dust cover in an AR for civilian use. And is an AR with the above specs at around $650 a good bang for the buck?
Thanks.
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8:09 am
October 29, 2011
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Crab Apple
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| Bronze Apple | posts 860 | |
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That seems like a reasonable price for the S&W AR15.
I am getting these in 7.62x39 and doing the 922r conversion myself to allow me to use commie AK47 mags.
Any Saiga 7.62x39, .223, or 5.45x39 caliber Rifle
or a Saiga .410 shotgun, for only $299.99
SAIGA RIFLES
Note: Tons of new Saiga accessories on the accessory page. Check it out.
SEE SPECIAL PROMOTION ABOVE
.223 CALIBER…ITEM # SAIGA-223……Special….……. $299.99
545X39 CALIBER..ITEM # SAIGA-545..Special……….. $299.99
7.62X39 CALIBER…ITEM # SAIGA….Special……………$299.99
.410 GA. SHOTGUN..ITEM # SAIGA.410..Special..…… $299.99
All of the Saiga firearms above are new in factory boxes with factory accessories. Rifles are 16.5" barrels Shotgun barrel is 19"
ORDER ON-LINE NOW!
Stocking Dealer Special.. 4 or more – Mix or Match…..$289.99
————————————————————————
The rifle is $289 and the parts for conversion are around $110 but I could get away cheaper if I had to.
I am getting a USA made collapsible stock and Fire Control Group to get me 922r compliant.
After I try them out I may I replace my Ruger mini's too.
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9:43 am
October 29, 2011
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Sourdough
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| Bronze Apple | posts 730 | |
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Gallo, Yes that is a very good price. The AR-15 "Platform" is clearly the best Platform. And should be a very good Investment.
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LOOK: Start to get wrapped around the idea that it was over in the Fall of 2008. This is just the dying quivers. Stop waiting for "IT" to happen, "IT" already happened.
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6:16 pm
October 29, 2011
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jamie
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|  Golden Apple | posts 1820 | |
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The Foward assist shouldn't be critical as long as you keep it clean and use good ammo that hasn't sat around for year like we did in the army.
I was a unit armor and most of the jamming problems for M-16 was due to overlubrication and poor cleaning methods. If you look at the bolt you will see to small holes put a drop of oil in each and work the charging handle a few times and you will be good to go.
One item I would add to the cleaning kit would be a blunted dental tool for cleaning tarter. You may even get one for free from your local dentist. That little hook is great for getting in the hard to reach spaces of upper receiver.
Crabby, That is awesome info on the Saiga I've been looking for a weapon like this for a good descent price.
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7:33 pm
October 29, 2011
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
|  Diamond Apple | posts 2326 | |
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Post edited 10:34 pm – October 30, 2011 by Jarhead
Gallo
How important are the Forward assist and Dust cover in an AR for civilian use. And is an AR with the above specs at around $650 a good bang for the buck?
On the M16s I carried in Viet Nam the bolt assist was critical….on the AR15 I now own, I've never used it.
$650 is a great price for the Smith. I've heard good things about the rifle.
Grabby, where do you buy the rifle in the add you posted? That's a great deal. Want one 
Crabby, correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines, your Saiga with U.S. made mags will have 14 U.S. parts (U.S. mags count as 3 U.S. parts) So if you use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston ($12.37) you are good to go (15 U.S.parts =922r compliant) right?
OK I got the count backward ….the Saiga has 14 imported parts and you need to get it to ten or less. The US mags count as three and a new US gas piston gives you ten.
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" When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and it's speaker a raving lunatic." Dresden James
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8:05 pm
October 29, 2011
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
| Diamond Apple | posts 2326 | |
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Post edited 8:10 pm – October 29, 2011 by Jarhead
Found it Crabby…..jg sales. 
Now 223 or 7.62X39 what to do what to do???? 
Grabby
After I try them out I may I replace my Ruger mini's too.
I replaced a Saiga with a mini 30 to get more accuracy years ago…..neither were anything to wright home about. Ending up going with an AR rifle.
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" When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and it's speaker a raving lunatic." Dresden James
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8:07 pm
October 29, 2011
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Sourdough
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| Bronze Apple | posts 730 | |
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Jarhead said:
Now 223 or 7.62X39 what to do what to do????
Buy Both…………………………
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LOOK: Start to get wrapped around the idea that it was over in the Fall of 2008. This is just the dying quivers. Stop waiting for "IT" to happen, "IT" already happened.
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8:11 pm
October 29, 2011
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
| Diamond Apple | posts 2326 | |
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Sourdough said:
Jarhead said:
Now 223 or 7.62X39 what to do what to do????
Buy Both…………………………
Good idea
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" When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and it's speaker a raving lunatic." Dresden James
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3:39 am
October 30, 2011
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Crab Apple
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| Bronze Apple | posts 860 | |
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Post edited 3:44 am – October 30, 2011 by Crab Apple
Jarhead said:
Grabby, where do you buy the rifle in the add you posted? That's a great deal. Want one
Crabby, correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines, your Saiga with U.S. made mags will have 14 U.S. parts (U.S. mags count as 3 U.S. parts) So if you use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston ($12.37) you are good to go (15 U.S.parts =922r compliant) right?
Classic Arms in NC is running this advertisement/website now.
http://www.classicarms.us/
Yes to convert the rifle from the "sporting" version to make BATFE happy you need to use 4 USA made parts on these rifles the mag counts as three and a gas piston will count as one. If the mags don't have an integral bullet guide/ramp you will need to install one, you will have to drill and tap a hole, (drill press recommended, you can make one or buy one for around 15 to 20 bucks) the bullet guide does not count for BATFE 922r compliance.
A pistolgrip stock(1 part) and fire control group (3 parts) and bullet guide (0 parts) will allow you to use foreign ak mags with the 7.63x39.
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6:42 am
October 30, 2011
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Crab Apple
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| Bronze Apple | posts 860 | |
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Jarhead said:
Crabby, correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines, your Saiga with U.S. made mags will have 14 U.S. parts (U.S. mags count as 3 U.S. parts) So if you use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston ($12.37) you are good to go (15 U.S.parts =922r compliant) right?
Jarhead,
You can buy high dollar full capacity mags for the saiga as is but converting to aUSA stock/pistol grip, firecontrol group and bullet guide makes allot of sense.
The jbt at the BATFE make up n interpret their "rules" seemingly as they go but the gist of what I have read is….
922r requires that an imported sporting rifle can only be modified to a more useful configuration IF the final result is 10 or less foreign parts on the weapon. Now the tricky part is knowing what the BATFE counts as a part.
this is a good document on that……
Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles
In this document I will attempt to express my understanding of the current laws and how they apply to the Saiga firearms. If you have questions & concerns or disagree with what I've put together, we can modify. The scope of this is to have a post to link members to if they have parts count questions. I realize there are several posts on this, but most do not specifically apply to both rifles and shotguns. Maybe this can be stickied somewhere handy.
Before doing anything, check with your local and state laws as you may have tighter regulations than what the ATF has laid out for us.
The Saigas have a certain number of parts in their unmodified “Sporting” configuration. They are considered imported because they have more than 10 imported parts in them. As such they are held to 922 ® compliance.
If you want to use high capacity magazines, convert the weapon to pistol grip configuration or use a flash hider, it will then be considered unsporting. You will need to swap out parts so that you have no more than 10 imported parts in it. It will then be considered a US made firearm and 922® does not apply. See bottom of this post for more 922® info and some grey areas.
Parts List
Here’s a quick overview of the parts count determined by the ATF definition letter listed at http://www.soupbowl…..ru/page12.html. For the Saiga rifles, refer to the Galil/AK parts count. The Saiga Shotguns are directly referenced.
A Saiga Rifle in factory configuration has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun threaded for chokes has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun not threaded for chokes has 13 parts.
(parts on a factory config saiga are in bold)
(1) Receiver
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)
(5) Muzzle attachments (shotguns w/ threaded barrels only)
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstock
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates
I'm gonna start a thread on saiga and post this there
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10:15 am
October 30, 2011
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Gallo
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| Bronze Apple | posts 924 | |
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Thanks for all you responses. This has been a great education.
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12:21 pm
November 3, 2011
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MW
| | Over the Rainbow | |
| Golden Apple | posts 1622 | |
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I purchased the S&W MP15 sport a week ago… it defeinitely is all its cracked up to be. Great value, great accuracy and as always, smith and wesson contruction is top notch. Forward assist is helpful in combat where hundreds of rounds are fired in a short time. Even in a home defense orsimilar situation, it is unlikely the forward assist will come in handy. Dust cover is only needed in field conditions. Just store the rifle like your others in a clean dry place.
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All the kings horses and all the kings men won’t be able to put the empire together again. -anonymous
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3:36 pm
November 3, 2011
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Gallo
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| Bronze Apple | posts 924 | |
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Post edited 3:37 pm – November 3, 2011 by Gallo
We're on the same wave length. Exactly a week ago I was at a small gun shop looking at the S&W Sport and thinking this beats the pants off any handgun purchase.
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4:10 pm
November 3, 2011
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
| Diamond Apple | posts 2326 | |
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Post edited 4:11 pm – November 3, 2011 by Jarhead
I would love to have one chambered for the 300 whisper. They will also fire the 300 AAC Blackout. Now there in my opinion is a round with a future. It has slightly better ballistics than a 7.62X39 but has a straight wall case allowing full magazine capacity in present magazines and more reliable feeding than a 7.62X39. It, like the 300 whisper, offers sub-sonic loads making it a great round for suppression, but unlike the whisper it is loaded by Remington and soon by other main stream loading companies as well.
300 Blackout compared with 5.56 and the7.62X39
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" When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and it's speaker a raving lunatic." Dresden James
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