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Saiga and 922r compliance

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6:47 am
October 30, 2011


Crab Apple

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 784

1

Jarhead said:

Crabby, correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines, your Saiga with U.S. made mags will have 14 U.S. parts (U.S. mags count as 3 U.S.  parts) So if you use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston ($12.37) you are good to go (15 U.S.parts =922r compliant) right?cheers

 

Jarhead,

The BATFE parts count is 14 they are all foriegn so you need to use 4 or more USA made parts for 922r compliance.

You can buy high dollar full capacity mags for the saiga as is but converting to a USA stock/pistol grip, firecontrol group and bullet guide makes allot of sense.

The jbt at the BATFE make up n interpret their "rules" seemingly as they go but the gist of what I have read is….

922r requires that an imported sporting rifle can only be modified to a more useful configuration  IF the final result is 10 or less foreign parts on the weapon. Now the tricky part is knowing what the BATFE counts as a part.

this is a good document on that……

Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles

In this document I will attempt to express my understanding of the current laws and how they apply to the Saiga firearms. If you have questions & concerns or disagree with what I've put together, we can modify. The scope of this is to have a post to link members to if they have parts count questions. I realize there are several posts on this, but most do not specifically apply to both rifles and shotguns. Maybe this can be stickied somewhere handy.

Before doing anything, check with your local and state laws as you may have tighter regulations than what the ATF has laid out for us.

The Saigas have a certain number of parts in their unmodified “Sporting” configuration. They are considered imported because they have more than 10 imported parts in them. As such they are held to 922 ® compliance.

If you want to use high capacity magazines, convert the weapon to pistol grip configuration or use a flash hider, it will then be considered unsporting. You will need to swap out parts so that you have no more than 10 imported parts in it. It will then be considered a US made firearm and 922® does not apply. See bottom of this post for more 922® info and some grey areas.

Parts List

Here’s a quick overview of the parts count determined by the ATF definition letter listed athttp://www.soupbowl…..ru/page12.html. For the Saiga rifles, refer to the Galil/AK parts count. The Saiga Shotguns are directly referenced.

A Saiga Rifle in factory configuration has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun threaded for chokes has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun not threaded for chokes has 13 parts.

(parts on a factory config saiga are in bold)

(1) Receiver 
(2) Barrels 
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)
(5) Muzzle attachments (shotguns w/ threaded barrels only)
(6) Bolts 
(7) Bolt carriers 
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons 
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers 
(12) Hammers 
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors 
(15) Buttstock 
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards 
(18) Magazine bodies 
(19) Followers 
(20) Floorplates

I'm gonna start a thread on saiga and post this thereauto

6:54 am
October 30, 2011


Crab Apple

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 784

2

A good do it yourself website to conversion

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saig…..on/#AK_top

8:46 am
October 30, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

3

Post edited 8:49 am – October 30, 2011 by Jarhead


OK, I was doing it from memory (of which I have none) and counting up instead of down. rofl

 

The Saiga has 14 non- Non US made parts and needs 10 or less. The magazines count as three, so if you use US mags you are down to 11. (It doesn't matter if you use the expensive Saiga mags or the less expensive AK mags as long as they are built in the US) now if you replace the factory  gas piston with a US made gas piston you are down to the magic 10.

 

If you want to add a folding stock or other AK features you can get the count even lower as long as you use US parts. People like jamie who are looking for an assault rifle on the cheap can buy  one Saiga for $299 and a gas piston for $12.37 and have a 922r compliant rifle for $311.37 as long as they use US made mags. Quite a bargain.

 

Crabby what mods  are you doing to use the cheap Russian AK47 mags? I have some Saiga mags left over from when I owned a Saiga, I guess I should get one out and compare it with a AK mag. Do your mags work without problems after the mods?

 

I saw on one of the web sites that you could buy 308 Saigas for $449. I don't believe there is another new 308 battle rifle in the world for twice that price. Even the old FALs are half again that expensive.

For some reason the 223 and 308 are supposed to be more accurate than the 7.62X39s. May have to do with the cheap ammo for the 7.62s. 

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

9:58 am
October 30, 2011


Crab Apple

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 784

4

Jarhead said:

 

Crabby what mods  are you doing to use the cheap Russian AK47 mags? I have some Saiga mags left over from when I owned a Saiga, I guess I should get one out and compare it with a AK mag. Do your mags work without problems after the mods?

 

Jarhead,

The Saiga factory mags have a bullet ramp on the front that guides the round into the chamber as it is peeled off the magazine.

To use standard (cheap) ak mags you need to install a bullet guide (ramp) in the rifle. you can buy one for 15 to 20 bucks or make one (intructions on the net) out of pipe by cutting it in half and shaping and drilling it. Either way you go…. store bought or home made you have to drill and tap a hole in the receiver where the round will enter the chamber. (easier with a drill press but doable by hand). 

 

My Saigas are being shipped to me right now. Once I modify the first one I will report my results, but all the research I have done looks very positive. I have trained with fellows carrying converted Saigas and the Saiga performs like the ak it is ….. goes boom every time you squeeze the trigger (reliable) and holds man size groups at least to 200 yards (adequate for a patrol rifle in this neck of the woods) someone with a bolt gun will be responsible for anything much farther out.   

Hmmmm ……I am sounding a little fringe for the Orchard but ….. hey it COULD happen.surprised

10:44 am
October 30, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

5

I haven't compared them side by side yet Crabby, but my Saiga mags won't work in my AK so there must be a difference in the mags also ……not just the feeding ramp. 

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

11:55 am
October 30, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

6

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

12:34 pm
October 30, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

7

The photos didn't come out side by side and for some reason I can't edit my post. The top photo is an AK mag the second a Saiga the third an AK and the fourth a Saiga.1

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

10:43 pm
October 30, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

8

Post edited 10:47 pm – October 30, 2011 by Jarhead


Crabby, I studied the photos in the link you provided and the only thing I can figure is they use different mags in the newer Saigas than they did in the older ones. You can see from my photos the old Saiga mags ain't gona go in an AK or visa versa.

The Saiga at $299 is a great deal as is but if you spend $110 converting it to an AK you haven't saved much over a $419 Romanian AK47. Now a 308 Saiga……..

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

11:09 am
January 28, 2012


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

9

Grabby, just wondering how your project  to convert a Saga to 922r-compliance is coming. Are the Saga Mags different or just the feeding ramps. Inquiring minds need to know rofl

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

11:48 am
January 28, 2012


Crab Apple

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 784

10

I gave one to my oldest son at home as a Christmas present. (which he thought was awesomesmile and his second sentence was "I can't tell anybody …can I?"rofl)

 

We have not done the conversion yet. I am still thinking about some of the parts I want to go with.

The Saiga mags have a thinner catch on the mag body exterior and a "ramp/guide" to feed rounds.

here is a good sites pdf on the mags

 

http://www.dinzagarms.com/down…..ptions.pdf

one thing I am considering is a shock absorbing stock BUT it is Israeli not USA made and therefore not 922r compliant so I need to change another part more than intended at my outset.

 

After handling the weapon I would take it as is over my Rugger mini 30's.

12:57 pm
January 28, 2012


MW

Over the Rainbow

Silver Apple
Silver Apple

posts 1386

11

After handling the weapon I would take it as is over my Rugger mini 30's.

 

ME TOO.

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."  -Ben Franklin

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