No this isn't the title of some freaky porn movie. Do you have it in you to protect yourself or your family or your nieghbor when you are face to face with an aggressor with no intention of backing down?
I mean, do you know beyond a doubt that you would pull the trigger? Do you even know to aim center mass and not go for silly head shots or -worse yet- wounding shots? Have you trained with your weapon of choice? No, not at a 10 meter target, but tactical drills where you quickly unholster, aquire your target and accurately hit the killzone. When was the last time you tested your weak side capabilities? Can you unload and load a new mag with the use of one arm?
I'm not being fascisious, but these skills can be learned, even without personal instruction if you know where to look. Practice these skills my friend, I sure am!
Speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.
5:50 am June 26, 2010
Floridian
Core Member
posts 172
2
I don't have it in me to take a life, but I would not hesitate to trade one if you threaten mine.
Liberty in Our Lifetime: freestateproject.org
8:22 am June 26, 2010
Jarhead
Arkansas
Diamond Apple
posts 2064
3
Post edited 1:31 pm – June 26, 2010 by Jarhead
I mean, do you know beyond a doubt that you would pull the trigger?
What do you do after your self examination you feel you may not be able to take a life? It's not that easy for a lot of people. I recommend you buy and read Lt. Col. David Crossman's book "On Killing. Col. Crossman's book was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; has been translated into Japanese, Korean, and German; is on the U.S. Marine Corps Commandant's required reading list; and is required reading at the FBI academy and numerous other academies and colleges.
Col. Grossman is an Airborne Ranger infantry officer, and a prior-service sergeant and paratrooper, with a total of over 23 years experience in leading U.S. soldiers worldwide. He retired from the Army in February 1998 and has devoted himself to teaching, writing, speaking, and research. Today he is the director of the Killology Research Group, and in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks he is on the road almost 300 days a year, training elite military and law enforcement organizations worldwide about the reality of combat.
Another great book co-authored by Col. Crossman is
Warrior Mindset presents psychological techniques and training to develop Mental Toughness, a Survival Mindset, and a Hardened Focus. In an easy-to-read format, you will learn simple techniques to integrate psychological skills with physical and tactical training to add a dimension that is often overlooked, but necessary to achieve maximal performance excellence as a modern warrior.
Dr. Michael Asken, Loren W. Christensen, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (Foreward by bestselling author Brad Thor), Warrior Mindset.
" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
11:34 am June 26, 2010
Marblesonac
Bronze Apple
posts 565
4
I have it in me to take a life in defense of family, friends, home, food etc..
Maybe later I would reflect on it, but at the time it would not be a problem.
It seems I come from a long line of alcoholics and pyschopaths.
I do not currently practice with my weak hand.
Stop bitching and start a revolution!
3:21 pm June 27, 2010
Nomad2nd
Core Member
posts 262
5
BTDT
4:27 pm June 27, 2010
EN
Bronze Apple
posts 942
6
I have it in me, but situations dictate a lot of this and first time encounters usually come off as stressful training events, but often times the second go round leaves a lot of people out of sorts. I like Grossman's stuff a lot and have seen him speak three times. Everyone should read his books. However, my experiences led me to Dr. Jonathan Shea. He's done the most work, much of it used by Grossman, on PTSD and his book "Achilles In Vietnam", is a must read for anyone wanting to understand the consequences of deadly stress.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex… It takes a touch of genius to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstien
6:37 pm June 27, 2010
MW
Over the Rainbow
Silver Apple
posts 1318
7
I fall back on my training as an MP in the Army. I've been out 5 years however and self-training is about all I do now. I have considered taking some new courses that are realistic, but probably won't. I think that I wouldn't hestitate in an armed confrontation, but I pray that it never happens. The movies make it look so good, but even if you're pberfectly justified, and even if its after an economic collapse, the justice system still goes through the motions and its not pretty.
My last point about this is that the family of the guy you shot and potentially killed may want revenge no matter how right you were in dropping him. Watch out for situations that may turn into gunplay and AVOID them. Be like a chameleon and just blend in, baby.
Speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.
7:20 pm June 27, 2010
jamie
Golden Apple
posts 1585
8
This is a tough subject. Now I know I can, but most folks a hypothetical. Killing another human being is a terrible thing for most folks. If you are not sure, pick your defenses to make up. Trust me I'm doing everything I can think of to make the bad guys go elsewhere.
I don't want to make that choice, though I know my answer. For most folks that make that choice of him or me will still go through a lot of mental anguish. Accept that now as normal, not your choice. You just wanted them to go away. But it is a heavy burden for most folks.
Some people can say it needed to be done and that is all. Nothing wrong with them. I'm just not that type, hell I have troubles killing anything. I know it has to be done. I do have problems with it.
3:54 am June 28, 2010
Sourdough
Bronze Apple
posts 728
9
I have a related question: What do you do with the bodies……..? Wild Game like moose or bears are to heavy to move so they are quartered up where they fall. What do you do with dead people on your property……? Some people are huge (240# maybe 280#) You can't just leave them there very long. And if there is no police, then there will be no ambulance or morgue service.
And what if other people are dragging the bodies of people they shot over and leaving them on or near your property. I know it sounds strange, but we live in a antiseptic world. What is your plan for the dead 235# man half in your doorway, and the 195# man in the living room.
If there are no cars or trucks (EMP) how do you drag them to the dump, or to someone Else's property. Really what do you do with dead people. And if your short on water, what do you do about all the blood & brains on the walls and floor. Maybe body bags and a sled.
LOOK: Start to get wrapped around the idea that it was over in the Fall of 2008. This is just the dying quivers. Stop waiting for "IT" to happen, "IT" already happened.
5:15 am June 28, 2010
Crab Apple
Bronze Apple
posts 761
10
If the crash is somewhat like Argentina's and somewhat "civilized" in that there is a functioning, albeit corrupt, government us in the lower 48 would probably have to go through legal channels. Some of us are removed from nieghbors far enough that it would be our call…. but that opens further legal problems with a corrupt govenment. Kinda like a colt HALF WAY across a barbed wire fence "DANGED if ya do DANGED if ya don't" I think this is the most likely scenario for us in the lower 48.
As far as dealing with it on our own if there is no governing authority.
1 Be sure the perp is DEAD! (EMT story here about a suicide head shot; brain matter splattered on wall behind him, who heard the EMT's say "He's dead" the patient said "I aint dead YET!" and in answer to "Can you see me?" replied "YEAH your FAT!" although this may have been a guess, as MOST EMT's are fat)
2 Wear neopreme gloves and thicker rubber gloves over them OR double glove with the neopreme (I have thick rubber gloves for live electrical work)
3 Wear Googles or a face Shield (you don't want to be splatered on the skin in the eyes or nose and mouth)
4 A "sled" of plywood to support the body, with rope or chain attached (like a harness) to pull would be the most expiedient, as you won't have to lift the body up and on, just roll or pull then drag perhaps "runners" on the front would eliminate the plywood snaging. A tarp, rubber sheet, or body bag would be good to eliminate a blood and gore trail.
5 This next point is somthing I need to discuss with a Doctor, will human pathogens break down and die when buried or is there danger of contaminating the soil? I would plan to "inter" aggressors in the 3 foot deep trench running though the fallow part of my gardens. Out of respect for the body a real "interment" should take place (ie fill the trench in over them) but this trench will be for any compostables and an outhouse that is moved along the trench. ( yeah this might not look good if LE gets involved in the future)
6 Clean any splatters ect and treat the contaminated areas with bleach water. ( a 10% solution of bleach with 90% water sprayed on and allowed to sit (30 seconds recommended but I would wait longer and repeat) before wiping then give the rags a good soak in the mixture.
7 Good opertunity to talk to those in your household about life and death matters, individual responsability and choices, on this occasion.
" Jonny this was a baaaad man and he wanted to hurt you and Mommy, Daddy will put all the baaaaad men who come to hurt you and Mommy in the ground, cause that's what daddy's do, we take care of our families"
5:48 am June 28, 2010
Sourdough
Bronze Apple
posts 728
11
Another thought………..You are invaded, you shoot both invaders, but they are not dead. One is paralyzed, and one is hit in the right knee and right shoulder, both have thrown there guns/knives to you in surrender, and are begging for help. Finnish them off, or give first aid and food and water for the next two months…….? And if they slowly recover they try to kill you. Or you are applying a bandage, and the guy pulls a knife and cuts you. What do you do with people you shot but are still alive….?
LOOK: Start to get wrapped around the idea that it was over in the Fall of 2008. This is just the dying quivers. Stop waiting for "IT" to happen, "IT" already happened.
6:17 am June 28, 2010
MW
Over the Rainbow
Silver Apple
posts 1318
12
Burn the bodies.
Speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil.
6:49 am June 28, 2010
Crab Apple
Bronze Apple
posts 761
13
A martial arts instructor once told me of an incident where an individual subdued a knife wielding attacker in a joint lock. The knife wielding atttacker "tapped out" and the tournament trained martial artist realsed the attacker who PROMPTLY STABBED him.
Under no circumstance are you required to render aid to the agressor if it endangers you (and it ALWAYS endangers you). EMT policy is to wait for LE to secure a dangerous area/situation prior to entering.
Under the rule of law keep them secured and notify the governing authority.
In the absence of the rule of law? Follow the chart in my first post.
6:52 am June 28, 2010
pm97
Florida
Bronze Apple
posts 637
14
In a case of no social order, there is no such thing as surviving invaders. Burn the bodies and yes dead bodies contaminate the ground. Don't know for how long tho'.
7:33 am June 28, 2010
Crab Apple
Bronze Apple
posts 761
15
OOH OOH here is a twist on this scenario.
After the "event" you hear a dog barking a 200 yards out from your home and after proper precations you investigate and find a skinny dog a weeping widow two young 13ish and 11ish fatherless kids, and you just killed their husband, oldest son & father and elder brother. Mom has a shotgun laying with her pack and gear 5 feet away, and the kids have staves and knives but they are all in shock at the prospect of having lost their 2 oldest men and don't have any idea what to do next.
They have some rag tag backpacking equiptment and a days worth of food. They were trying to hike to "Grandpa's" farm about 150 miles from your home, they have allready been on the trail for 150 miles. The father decided (after unsuccessfully trying to work for food elsewhere) to resupply by invading you home with his son.
Now what do you do?
Run them off, tell them to go die somewhere else?
Give them some supplies, the weapons from the dead?
Let them camp and recooperate near your home before sending them on their way?
Somthing else?
9:34 am June 28, 2010
Jarhead
Arkansas
Diamond Apple
posts 2064
16
Most of these scenarios have to many variables to be able to answer. Is there still some vestige of goverenment? are the police forces still operating? If there are still police forces operating then they probably need to be called or you will end up being arrested and your family will be on their own. In Crab Apple's scenario the police can handle the survivors, in a Mad Max scenario, I would bury the dead, give Crabby's survivors one meal keep the dead's weapons and send the weeping widow and two young packing. As to the skinny dog, I would use him and a little rice for their meal. I may (if I think it possible) try and save some neighborhood kids but as many point out to me on another thread, I can't save em all !
" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
9:35 am June 28, 2010
Pete
Bronze Apple
posts 665
17
Crab Apple said:
OOH OOH here is a twist on this scenario.
After the "event" you hear a dog barking a 200 yards out from your home and after proper precations you investigate and find a skinny dog a weeping widow two young 13ish and 11ish fatherless kids, and you just killed their husband, oldest son & father and elder brother. Mom has a shotgun laying with her pack and gear 5 feet away, and the kids have staves and knives but they are all in shock at the prospect of having lost their 2 oldest men and don't have any idea what to do next.
They have some rag tag backpacking equiptment and a days worth of food. They were trying to hike to "Grandpa's" farm about 150 miles from your home, they have allready been on the trail for 150 miles. The father decided (after unsuccessfully trying to work for food elsewhere) to resupply by invading you home with his son.
Now what do you do?
Run them off, tell them to go die somewhere else?
Give them some supplies, the weapons from the dead?
Let them camp and recooperate near your home before sending them on their way?
Somthing else?
OMG!!! What I'd want to do is try to wake up front this nightmare!!! Some scenarios I'm just not going to try to prepare for and pray that I'm never in this situation. I'm at work at the moment so maybe I can come back and elaborate with some more detail later.
The United States' I grew up in no longer exists…click your heals, Dorothy: you're not in Kansas anymore!!
10:37 am June 28, 2010
Marblesonac
Bronze Apple
posts 565
18
If I'm low on food with no prospects that look good for more in the near future, I would cook the meat off the dead bodies until well done and have a feast.
Wife and kids…too bad your old man picked the wrong house to rob…hit the bricks before I get hungry again! Sure you can fill your canteens with water…you can even have some meat if'n you want it :-)
Stop bitching and start a revolution!
10:47 am June 28, 2010
Sourdough
Bronze Apple
posts 728
19
Crab Apple said:
OOH OOH here is a twist on this scenario.
After the "event" you hear a dog barking a 200 yards out from your home and after proper precations you investigate and find a skinny dog a weeping widow two young 13ish and 11ish fatherless kids, Now what do you do?
Somthing else?
How UGLY is the weeping widow………? And are the 11ish & 13ish kids both boys……?
LOOK: Start to get wrapped around the idea that it was over in the Fall of 2008. This is just the dying quivers. Stop waiting for "IT" to happen, "IT" already happened.
4:34 pm June 28, 2010
Jarhead
Arkansas
Diamond Apple
posts 2064
20
How UGLY is the weeping widow………?
What cha gonna do Sour ….eat her too?
" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
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