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The Late Great United States

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12:14 pm
December 15, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

1

Well I guess it's official now, the United States as we know it is over. Yeah I know it's been going to hell for awhile….a long while but this is beyond the pale.

 

Military given go-ahead to detain US terrorist suspects without trial

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..tion-obama

"It's something so radical that it would have been considered crazy had it been pushed by the Bush administration," said Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch. "It establishes precisely the kind of system that the United States has consistently urged other countries not to adopt. At a time when the United States is urging Egypt, for example, to scrap its emergency law and military courts, this is not consistent."

 

Rand Paul

"We're talking about American citizens who can be taken from the United States and sent to a camp at Guantánamo Bay and held indefinitely. It puts every single citizen American at risk," he said. "Really, what security does this indefinite detention of Americans give us? The first and flawed premise, both here and in the badly named Patriot Act, is that our pre-9/11 police powers were insufficient to stop terrorism. This is simply not borne out by the facts."

"There are laws on the books now that characterise who might be a terrorist: someone missing fingers on their hands is a suspect according to the department of justice. Someone who has guns, someone who has ammunition that is weatherproofed, someone who has more than seven days of food in their house can be considered a potential terrorist," Paul said. "If you are suspected because of these activities, do you want the government to have the ability to send you to Guantánamo Bay for indefinite detention?"

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

12:57 pm
December 15, 2011


Crab Apple

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 784

2

from the link

"In fact, the heads of several security agencies, including the FBI, CIA, the director of national intelligence and the attorney general objected to the legislation. The Pentagon also said it was against the bill.

The FBI director, Robert Mueller, said he feared the law could compromise the bureau's ability to investigate terrorism because it would be more complicated to win co-operation from suspects held by the military."

 

If the above don't want it then who does and why? What is brewing in the TPTB witches kettle?  

So reading between the lines it is DHS that wants to use this. They, I believe, will be the Brown-shirts in the upcoming civil war.

 

Most people falsely believe "If I was there I could not have turned my back on my fellow countrymen when the SA or Gestapo hauled them off."

Watch and see what it takes to get people to act. It is going to be ugly right here in our lifetimes.cry 

2:11 pm
December 15, 2011


Gallo

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 732

3

I've always thought that in my generation we have not know hardships.  My parent's generation had to deal with the draft and Vietnam, before that the Korean war, and before that WWI and before the Big Depression, and WWI.

 

I know for a fact that no generation has escaped hardships.  I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop.

6:24 pm
December 15, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

4

Post edited 6:29 pm – December 15, 2011 by Jarhead


Not sure how reliable Alex Jones is but……….

 Remember those FEMA camps that don't exist? Well it seems they are now hiring to staff them. 

Army Post Jobs for FEMA Camps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f…..1JM5ZhWg#!

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

8:48 pm
December 15, 2011


MW

Over the Rainbow

Silver Apple
Silver Apple

posts 1386

5

Jarhead, I looked into that and -drum roll- an old army buddy of mine just interviewed for a contractor position in I/R OPS, a.k.a. Internment/ Resettlement operations in the great state of Ohio. He, like me, was an MP with a background in I/R and EG (Escort Guard). He will keep me informed supposedly.

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."  -Ben Franklin

8:54 pm
December 15, 2011


Justin Case

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 616

6

If MF Global legally ripped off $1.2 billion of its customers' money (because of quirks hidden in the fine print of the law) and banks in general could do the same thing after a widespread financial collapse, you will have mass rioting in the streets.  Those FEMA camps will be used to help quell the resulting insurrection.  The powers that be are not stupid; they're prepared.

Your Money Is Not Safe

MF's collapse and the "missing" client funds may seem like a one-off — an isolated incident. Celente's bigger point is that banks and brokerage firms can legally use client funds (i.e. your money); that "comingling" funds is neither rare nor a scandalous practice.

Plan Ahead

10:41 pm
December 15, 2011


MW

Over the Rainbow

Silver Apple
Silver Apple

posts 1386

7

I'm reassessing a few things. Some changes are, unfortunately, in order.

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."  -Ben Franklin

5:49 am
December 16, 2011


Pete

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 682

8

MW said:

I'm reassessing a few things. Some changes are, unfortunately, in order.

What do you mean, MW? I've seen the FEMA camp thing for a while now; and now you have the military detention authorization with a complete blackout of media coverage, that makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck surprised. Also, I think they probably have another category for suspected 'insurrectionist' : GTA members!!

The United States' I grew up in no longer exists…click your heals, Dorothy: you're not in Kansas anymore!!

9:28 am
December 16, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

9

Post edited 9:32 am – December 16, 2011 by Jarhead


Pete said:

MW said:

I'm reassessing a few things. Some changes are, unfortunately, in order.

What do you mean, MW? I've seen the FEMA camp thing for a while now; and now you have the military detention authorization with a complete blackout of media coverage, that makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck surprised. Also, I think they probably have another category for suspected 'insurrectionist' : GTA members!!

I'm afraid that if things start going really bad they will move to arrest and detain the trouble makers (people like us) fast. They need sheep, not independent thinkers, we would be a bad example. If we don't "need" the government we would be much harder to "herd".  In their minds (rightfully so) we would be the nucleolus of the resistance. 

It seems as  much of what is happening is being done purposely (Cloward/Pivin) the rest is happening naturally at a time that benefits  those  seeking "change". Either way it's looking bad.

 

I wonder if there will be a 2012 election and if there is and Obama wins will it be the last? If we have a crash before the elections next year I can see Obama suspending the election and declaring marshall law.

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

9:36 am
December 16, 2011


MW

Over the Rainbow

Silver Apple
Silver Apple

posts 1386

10

That's my point, Pete. Reevaluating means looking at everything i'm doing and determining whether or not I'm going to get thrown in the gulag for it. GTA, themodernsurvivalist forums, my bumper stickers, yard signs, my military haircut, my outspoken opinions on everything, my support for Ron Paul, etc.. etc..

 

That kind of free speech is no longer safe, lets be honest. The government doesnt have their act completely together on the police state yet, but they're close. They have the tools and infrastructure in place, but events arent where they need to be yet. Its just going to take the next trigger event for the hammer to fall.

 

All of the things we do on the internet are permanent. PERMANENT. Every word, every link, every emoticon. Everything is stored for later sorting, recording and analyzing. This would sound paranoid if not in light of the recent National Defense Authorization Act which calls the homeland of America a "battlefield" and subjects American citizens to arrest on suspision of terrorism -a broadly watered down definition to be sure- as well as indefinite imprisonment ala GITMO, suspension of Habeus Corpus, etc..

 

Some will cower, some will join the tyrants and some will take up arms.

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."  -Ben Franklin

10:38 am
December 16, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

11

Not trying to start another argument MW, but  the point I was making about Romney/ Newt over Obama is I don't believe either of them will be much better and yes I'm tired of voting for the least bad. I'm afraid they, like Bush will take us down the same road  but…… not as fast as Obama. The only difference between the Republicans and Democrats at this point is the speed at which we approach the cliff. I've made great improvements in my preparations this past year and every additional  month helps. The only reasons to vote for a third party candidate are protest, or hope the big parties get the message. It's too late for messages. You may not agree with me and I may be wrong, a republican may take us to hell as quick as Obama. I don't believe Ron Paul or anyone else can save us now, I just want a little more time.

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

10:53 am
December 16, 2011


Justin Case

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 616

12

Jarhead said:

I wonder if there will be a 2012 election and if there is and Obama wins will it be the last? If we have a crash before the elections next year I can see Obama suspending the election and declaring marshall law.

I remember the same concern existing back in 1972.  There was a lot of social unrest in the country.  The economy was slipping, and inflation was heating up.  Some people wondered if Nixon was going to call off the election due to the growing crisis (which was seen by Nixon as being caused by communist infiltrators out to destroy America).

Thanks to an alert security guard at the Watergate building in Washington, DC, the Republican plot to bug the Democratic National Headquarters was discovered.  Nixon won the 1972 election by a landslide anyway, but the Watergate issue wouldn't go away.

Thanks to the honesty and integrity of many people, the secret taping system in the Oval Office was disclosed (which led to the infamous "18-minute gap" that ultimately forced Nixon to resign).  There were rumors that Nixon might order the military to seize control and suspend civilian rule until the Watergate crisis ended, which led to other rumors that the civilians around Nixon told the military not to follow any order issued by Nixon unless it was first cleared by the civilians (and the military supposedly went along with the idea).

Whether we have a repeat of this scenario in 2012 remains to be seen.  But regardless of what happens, I believe it's going to be a bumpy ride for the country.  The 1970s problems of stagflation and energy shortages persisted into the early 1980s.  My belief is that the systemic risks we are facing right now will persist for many years.  Confidence in the system will likely be restored only after a few high-profile people (e.g., big-name Wall Street bankers) end up in prison.

Plan Ahead

12:01 pm
December 16, 2011


MW

Over the Rainbow

Silver Apple
Silver Apple

posts 1386

13

Post edited 12:28 pm – December 16, 2011 by MW


Jarhead, I know what you're saying, but every republican on that stage last night (except u know who) will take us into WW3, especially Newt. So, don't be so sure that Obama will be the quicker route to Oblivion. I want this to be over with quickly, sort of how the ideal suicide would go. Who wants to saw their own head off? Why not just use a .12ga and finish it quickly and painlessly?

 

Protest vote? Yes, but for my own concience first. Second, not to send a message but to punish the Republican machine. Its never to late to mete out a lashing for poor behavior.

 

I also want to clarify the situation of the Presidency being the lynchpin of our future. It certainly is not. Obama doesn't have to "sieze" control as the Elites and PTB (establishment, etc) are the entrenched ones and the executive is just their tool. So, ousting Nixon didn't hurt the establishment nor did i weaken the int'l banking cartels or the money powers. Why would Nixon try to sieze control when he left the "reigns" of the presidency in safe hands?

 

In the same way, Obama losin the election wouldn't be a deathblow by any means to his ideals or to the establishment. Losing to Ron Paul, however, could. So ironically the election of Ron Paul could be the trigger…

 

Wow.

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."  -Ben Franklin

1:27 pm
December 16, 2011


Crab Apple

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 784

14

MW said:

 

That kind of free speech is no longer safe, lets be honest. The government doesnt have their act completely together on the police state yet, but they're close. They have the tools and infrastructure in place, but events arent where they need to be yet. Its just going to take the next trigger event for the hammer to fall.

  Some will cower, some will join the tyrants and some will take up arms.

from a pdf file

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/aw…..l31798.pdf

Data Mining and Homeland Security: An Overview

Summary
Data mining has become one of the key features of many homeland security
initiatives. Often used as a means for detecting fraud, assessing risk, and product
retailing, data mining involves the use of data analysis tools to discover previously
unknown, valid patterns and relationships in large data sets. In the context of
homeland security, data mining can be a potential means to identify terrorist
activities, such as money transfers and communications, and to identify and track
individual terrorists themselves, such as through travel and immigration records.
While data mining represents a significant advance in the type of analytical tools
currently available, there are limitations to its capability. One limitation is that
although data mining can help reveal patterns and relationships, it does not tell the
user the value or significance of these patterns. These types of determinations must
be made by the user. A second limitation is that while data mining can identify
connections between behaviors and/or variables, it does not necessarily identify a
causal relationship. Successful data mining still requires skilled technical and
analytical specialists who can structure the analysis and interpret the output.
 
UUUUHM, does anyone have any cost effective meathods for avoiding thermal imaging?

panic

 

1:35 pm
December 16, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

15

You could be right MW, I don't think there will be much difference either way but it won't be over quickly. There could be years of persecution, internment, death, starvation, and worse. I agree that Newt or Romney could take us to war but so will Obama. Israel and the Mid-East will assure that. Obama was given these new powers with the help of the Republican house so there is no assurance his defeat would slow things down. I believe the die is cast the best we can hope for is more time to prepare……..and for more to wake up and they are waking up….albeit slowly. Look how Dr. Paul's popularity has surged, these people are waking up.    

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

4:06 pm
December 16, 2011


jamie

Golden Apple
Golden Apple

posts 1647

16

I don't know what to do,  but I'll keep doing my blog. I'm in so many databases between the military, VA and SSD I'm sure they have me pegged to the limit. I hope that they see that I'm handicapped and pose no threat.

To a certain extent this NDAA has already had some of the effect of people restricting their own speech for fear of the Government. But this act has huge risks because it can be the  "one cause"  that all Americans unite behind. From the Tea party to OWS and if we stop fighting left vs. right, Red vs. Blue it will change the paradigm if we all start working together instead of fighting each other.

Crabby I've heard but I haven't tested those thick mylar Emergency blankets are supposed to cut down your thermal image.

5:42 pm
December 16, 2011


MW

Over the Rainbow

Silver Apple
Silver Apple

posts 1386

17

If you reduce your thermal image, and none of your neighbors do, wouldnt you stick out like a sore thumb?

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."  -Ben Franklin

8:28 pm
December 16, 2011


Jarhead

Arkansas

Diamond Apple
Diamond Apple

posts 2109

18

"  The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."    John Adams 

10:23 pm
December 16, 2011


MW

Over the Rainbow

Silver Apple
Silver Apple

posts 1386

19

Yea, that was a great piece. I played it twice. But, obviously the what ifs are actually fact.

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."  -Ben Franklin

8:27 am
December 17, 2011


Crab Apple

Bronze Apple
Bronze Apple

posts 784

20

MW said:

If you reduce your thermal image, and none of your neighbors do, wouldnt you stick out like a sore thumb?

I am wondering about avoiding detection while on foot by others on foot or by drones overhead.

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