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8:54 am
September 3, 2010
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
|  Diamond Apple | posts 2064 | |
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If you are not prepared, you will face the k2b2b scenario and your only interest will be day to day survival. The last think on your mind will be acquiring or even preserving wealth. For those of us that have prepped or even "over prepped " in some minds, wont be worried about starvation so we can turn our thoughts to not only preserving our wealth but increasing it. There will be an end to the turmoil and some will come though alive and some will come though richer than before the crash and some will come though rich beyond belief. It happens that way in every crash. I sometimes feel that's why we have these crashes. The international bankers and super rich corporations steal the wealth of the middle class….. the poor stay poor, the rich get much richer and the middle class is destroyed.
If you need something to eat after the SHTF come and see me, I'll give you some for a little of that metal. 
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" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
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3:57 pm
September 3, 2010
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Justin Case
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|  Bronze Apple | posts 610 | |
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The 150 year anniversary of the California Gold Rush of 1849 was back in 1999, so there were shows about it on PBS. One thing that was mentioned was the culture clash between the 49ers and Native Americans. The two groups often encountered each other in the rivers. The 49ers were laughing at the Native Americans who were there to catch fish to eat (and who had no interest in the gold). The Native Americans were laughing at the 49ers who were there to find shiny rocks (and who had no interest in the fish). Each group thought the other group had misplaced values and was wasting its time.
The value of gold is a collective delusion. Because gold exists in limited supply, we assign it a value and most of the time this approach works. But under certain dire TEOTWAWKI scenarios, necessities for life (such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine, or whatever) might be worth everything and gold might be worth nothing (as King Midas learned). TEOTWAWKI scenarios that are less dire would likely have a place for gold and other precious metals as a store of value and a medium for exchange.
The challenge for prepping is that we don't know how bad TEOTWAWKI will turn out to be. The possibilities include the equivalent of the 10-year flood, 100-year flood, or 1000-year flood. Presumably it takes a lot more prepping to survive a 1000-year flood than it does a 10-year flood, and presumably a 10-year flood is much more likely to occur than is a 1,000-year flood.
It's the process of thinking through these different scenarios and how you might cope with each one that is valuable. I decided years ago to get out of debt and build up my cash reserves as my first step towards prepping. I've also downsized my life and gotten rid of stuff I no longer need (so I'm much more mobile if I have to change my address unexpectedly).
I stilll need to think through possibilities such as a high surge in the crime rate, a severe cutback in resources (food or fuel), and what form of money to have on hand (physical cash, precious metals, credit and debit cards, or goods to use for barter). I suspect if someone has an asset they want to get rid of (such as land for the price of back taxes and the assumption of its mortgage, or an expensive car they can no longer afford and need the cash instead to buy food), they might be very willing to negotiate and quite flexible in what they will accept as payment.
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5:31 pm
September 3, 2010
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Clark
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|  Core Member | posts 473 | |
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Pete said, "Clark, I think you read a little too much in to K2d2b's post. I see the post as saying his family were living as refugees in extreme poverty. Money or metal is a means of storing value. It seems under their survival circumstances, there was no surplus for storage of any kind. No one would take the risk.."
Not reading too much into it, rather, looking at the bigger picture, looking for points of opportunity, places to grab the apple.
Risk is often opportunity.
Individuals sometimes rise up out of situations such as being refugees in extreme poverty. Using money or metal is sometimes a way to do that. How to go about it is the challenge.
And like Jarhead said, "For those of us that have prepped or even "over prepped " in some minds, wont be worried about starvation so we can turn our thoughts to not only preserving our wealth but increasing it. There will be an end to the turmoil and some will come though alive and some will come though richer than before the crash and some will come though rich beyond belief."
But if too much force is applied from above and from within ones own goberment (What's Past is Prologue) chances to grab the apple get a bit slimmer.
The bit above about the Gold Rush of California reminded me that the locals used local goberment to strip goods, rights and life from the Spanish people who had been there for hundreds of years, right along side the Native Americans, groups the majority mob focused on, perhaps just because they weren't like themselves or because of greed and envy? Substitute Spanish for Prepper or person who believes in freedom, liberty and property rights over the collective hive?
Just considering the possibilities.
Jarhead said, "The last think on your mind will be acquiring or even preserving wealth."
From the book Don W. posted on the blog about hyperinflation Germany, getting and saving wealth was top priority for many even though they were in up to their necks in extreme SHTF poverty because that was their ticket OUT and on to better pastures. Where others ate for one day or two by accepting eggs, some saved metal, skipped a few meals and used the metal to escape to where food was more abundant and so too was freedom while some of those who saved eggs for the next day perished for lack of an escape route or a way to increase or preserve their wealth.
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5:35 pm
September 3, 2010
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k2d2b
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|  Fresh Fruit | posts 6 | |
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Post edited 5:36 pm – September 3, 2010 by k2d2b
Excellent discussion. This was a refugee scenario and while there was some trade going on, the Japanese controlled the market and the soldiers were brutal. Apparently, people were given ration cards, but she only tried once to use it. Her and a female friend went and only she returned. Its not a good story.
While this is not a hyperinflation story, I see this as something we might experience in an extreme TEOTWAWKI situation such as nuclear war, Yellowstone erupts, etc. When everything around you is finite and society turns to scavaging for survival. At that point, I really believe, whomever has the most armed men is going to have the most wealth; in whatever form they decide.
I do think we will experience something along the lines of what the following article depicts, but not exactly. No one can really say exactly what's going to happen, but the numbers are there and so is the history of how all fiat currencies come to an end. Its just that no one has ever experienced the end of a fiat currency being used simultaneously as a global reserve currency before, so as the author posits, this may very well be an opportunity in as much as it is a calamity.
Somewhat like FerFal, I do like the fact this author advises to focus more on after than during. Just like having a child, anyone who spends all their time focusing on being prepared for the birth, finds themselves in complete shock when its time to go home. One situation lasts a few hours, the other, the rest of their life.
http://www.munknee.com/2010/09…..d-of-2011/
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7:49 pm
September 3, 2010
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Justin Case
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| Bronze Apple | posts 610 | |
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Clark said:
The bit above about the Gold Rush of California reminded me that the locals used local goberment to strip goods, rights and life from the Spanish people who had been there for hundreds of years, right along side the Native Americans, groups the majority mob focused on, perhaps just because they weren't like themselves or because of greed and envy? Substitute Spanish for Prepper or person who believes in freedom, liberty and property rights over the collective hive?
Just considering the possibilities.
It's true that Native Americans were decimated by the white settlers regardless of whether the settlers were American or Spanish.
By the end of the 1700s, Spain had acquired a colonial empire in the "New World" that reached from the tip of South America up through South and North America, from the Mississippi to what is now California. One historian described an essential feature of this Spanish empire: "A cruel alchemy converted human wealth into material treasure by consuming hundreds of Indian lives for each ingot of gold and silver shipped to Madrid. A holocaust of slavery, atrocities and disease reduced New Spain's native population from 11 million at the time of Cortez [who conquered the Aztecs in 1519-1521] to 6 million by 1550."
Gold and Genocide
After the Gold Rush, the California government adopted a systematic policy of genocide.
Towns offered bounty hunters cash for every Indian head or scalp they obtained. Rewards ranged from $5 for every severed head in Shasta City in 1855 to 25 cents for a scalp in Honey Lake in 1863. One resident of Shasta City wrote about how he remembers seeing men bringing mules to town, each laden with eight to twelve Indian heads. Other regions passed laws that called for collective punishment for the whole village for crimes committed by Indians, up to the destruction of the entire village and all of its inhabitants. These policies led to the destruction of as many as 150 Native communities.
In both 1851 and 1852 California paid out $1 million–revenue from the gold fields–to militias that hunted down and slaughtered Indians. In 1857, the state issued $400,000 in bonds to pay for anti-Indian militias.
California used to pay a bounty for Native American scalps
If you look at the larger picture at the time of the Gold Rush, it appears that the United States wanted Americans to populate the west coast to strentghen the U.S. hold over its expanding empire (otherwise known as Manifest Destiny – this American legacy was pitched as a good thing when I learned about it in high school). Knowing the human nature tendency of greed, announcing "gold discovered in California" was all it took to get Americans stampeding to California.
At the time gold was discovered, California was part of the Mexican territory of Alta California, which was ceded to the U.S. after the end of the Mexican-American War with the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo on February 2, 1848.
On August 19, 1848, the New York Herald was the first major newspaper on the East Coast to report the discovery of gold. On December 5, 1848, President James Polk confirmed the discovery of gold in an address to Congress. Soon, waves of immigrants from around the world, later called the "forty-niners," invaded the Gold Country of California or "Mother Lode." As Sutter had feared, he was ruined; his workers left in search of gold, and squatters took over his land and stole his crops and cattle.
California Gold Rush
President Polk was picking fights with all of his neighbors and getting territorial concessions as a result.
Polk was the last strong pre-Civil War president. Polk is noted for his foreign policy successes. He threatened war with Britain then backed away and split the ownership of the Oregon region (the Pacific Northwest) with Britain. When Mexico rejected American annexation of Texas, Polk led the nation to a sweeping victory in the Mexican–American War, followed by purchase of California, Arizona, and New Mexico. He secured passage of the Walker tariff of 1846, which had low rates that pleased his native South. He established a treasury system that lasted until 1913.
James Polk
The upshot is that when people end up on what turns out to be the wrong side of history, they suffer a great deal. Having a Plan C to go elsewhere makes a lot of sense.
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3:07 am
September 4, 2010
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rivercelt
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| Fresh Fruit | posts 26 | |
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jarhead:
it's me druid. could you tell me how to PM. i've got a comment i want to send you.
thanks
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6:49 am
September 4, 2010
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rivercelt
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| Fresh Fruit | posts 26 | |
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pete, i got your PM, but i don't know how. would one of you guys give me instructions on the forum on how to use the PM service. i'm popping brain cells quickly trying to figure it out.
druid
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7:45 am
September 4, 2010
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pm97
| | Florida | |
| Bronze Apple | posts 637 | |
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The easiest way I found is to right click on their name. Thier profile appears. At the bottom is a PM button. Once pressed I'm sure you can figure out the rest. Hope this helps.
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2:04 pm
September 4, 2010
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Pete
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| Bronze Apple | posts 665 | |
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rivercelt said:
pete, i got your PM, but i don't know how. would one of you guys give me instructions on the forum on how to use the PM service. i'm popping brain cells quickly trying to figure it out.
druid
Druid,
It might be a difference in internet explorer set ups. When I view a post, above that persons post is 3 buttons/3 options: 1. Quote and Reply 2. Report Post 3. Send PM. When I want to send someone a personal message, I hit the button above that persons post that says "Send PM". The forum then takes me to a different screen where the individual whose post I PM'd is already preselected (and it gives me the option to select more GTA members), and a 'composing screen' to type my message. After I type my message, I scroll down a little; and, on the right hand side of the screen, there will be a button that gives me the option to 'send PM' or 'cancel'. That should do it.
Pete
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The United States' I grew up in no longer exists…click your heals, Dorothy: you're not in Kansas anymore!!
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