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11:29 pm
January 22, 2012
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jamie
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|  Golden Apple | posts 1647 | |
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While I may disagree with folks on how they prepare. I think preparing for disasters is darn important! So I'd like to see a well reasoned argument or debate that we are all fools for preparing. Some how we are wasting our time and or money and exactly what effect we have on a country.
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6:07 am
January 23, 2012
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pm97
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|  Bronze Apple | posts 663 | |
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Sorry, I can't come up with one. I doubt anyone in this crowd will come up with a "really" good reason. A funny one maybe.
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8:27 am
January 23, 2012
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
|  Diamond Apple | posts 2109 | |
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The only reasons I can think (and they are crappy excuses) are
don't believe any thing will happen (normalcy bias)
lack of room
spouse won't allow it
don't have the money
afraid of looking paranoid
plan on stealing (raiding) after SHTF
believe God will provide for you
and my personal favorite…..Just to damn STUPID 
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" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
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9:23 am
January 23, 2012
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MW
| | Over the Rainbow | |
|  Silver Apple | posts 1386 | |
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What about these two:
can't prep cause of imprisonment/ indefinite detention
can't prep because of medical condition, i.e. coma, quadrapalegic, etc..
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"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other." -Ben Franklin
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9:30 am
January 23, 2012
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Crab Apple
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| Bronze Apple | posts 784 | |
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hey us Sheep don't have to prepare for needs or think we just follow the shepard. Hey it has always worked out in the past baaaaa baaaaaa baaaaaa.
Well except for once in a while he does eat one of the kids. baaaa baaaa baaaa.
Well and every year he does shear off ALL our fleece. baaaaa baaaaa baaaa.
Most folks in the USA just can't comprehend a need to divert resources from supporting a falsely elevated lifestyle to preparing for life in a 2nd or 3rd world country (post collapse USA).
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10:07 am
January 23, 2012
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
| Diamond Apple | posts 2109 | |
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MW said:
can't prep because of medical condition, i.e. coma, quadrapalegic, etc..
 That would encompass almost all of the sheep 
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" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
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10:31 am
January 23, 2012
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
| Diamond Apple | posts 2109 | |
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Post edited 4:13 pm – January 23, 2012 by Jarhead
Crab Apple said:
hey us Sheep don't have to prepare for needs or think we just follow the shepard. Hey it has always worked out in the past baaaaa baaaaaa baaaaaa.
Well except for once in a while he does eat one of the kids. baaaa baaaa baaaa.
Well and every year he does shear off ALL our fleece. baaaaa baaaaa baaaa.
Most folks in the USA just can't comprehend a need to divert resources from supporting a falsely elevated lifestyle to preparing for life in a 2nd or 3rd world country (post collapse USA).
DE TOCQUEVILLE WAS a French thinker and philosopher who lived from 1805 to 1859, and was greatly influenced by Montesquieu. He wrote Democracy in America,
" Our contemporaries are constantly excited by two conflicting passions: they want to be led, and they wish to remain free. As they cannot destroy either the one or the other of these contrary propensities, they strive to satisfy them both at once. They devise a sole, tutelary, and all-powerful form of government, but elected by the people. They combine the principle of centralization and that of popular sovereignty; this gives them a respite; they console themselves for being in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own guardians. Every man allows himself to be put in leading-strings, because he sees that it is not a person or a class of persons, but the people at large who hold the end of his chain. By this system the people shake off their state of dependence just long enough to select their master and then relapse into it again. A great many persons at present day are quite contented with this sort of compromise between administrative despotism and the sovereignty of the people; and they think they have done enough for the protection of individual freedom when they have surrendered it to the power of the nation at large.…”
I think that pretty well sums up modern America….they want to be led, but they wish to be free. We shake off our state of dependence just long enough to select our master and then relapse into it again. We are like the Jews of the bible who asked God for a king. We want our government to be our father.
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" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
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11:33 am
January 23, 2012
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Gallo
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| Bronze Apple | posts 732 | |
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I'll give a reason not to prepare: the world is exploding come 12/21/2012. That's what the MSM says that the mayas said.
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1:19 pm
January 23, 2012
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fifteenfifty
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|  Fresh Fruit | posts 38 | |
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I can't think of any reasons not to prepare in the general sense, though for myself I could come up with some arguments about what exactly to prepare for (matching my own choices, of course).
Anyhow, the vast majority simply don't believe that things could ever fall apart so badly and the people here do. I get the impression that they associate anyone who seriously considers such possibilities to have some form of mental illness. Which is why I never talk economics or politics or my vision of the future with anyone. I don't want to be associate with prepping in any way whatsoever.
The best reason to know the excuses is so that you can offer them yourself should the topic come up.
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2:16 pm
January 23, 2012
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MW
| | Over the Rainbow | |
| Silver Apple | posts 1386 | |
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I think that pretty well sums up modern America….they want to be led, but thay wish to be free. We shake off our state of dependence just long enough to select our master and then relapse into it again. We are like the Jews of the bible who asked God for a king. We want our government to be our father.
I agree. De Tocqueville was a genius in that respect.
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"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other." -Ben Franklin
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4:35 pm
January 23, 2012
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
| Diamond Apple | posts 2109 | |
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Tocqueville was a genius and one that I'm sure people like Obama have studied as we have studied the likes of Marx.
Tocqueville knew that the governing despotism of which he wrote, and which can accurately and be characterized as utopianism, is, for free men, living in civil societies, a perpetual and existential threat. In the end, Tocqueville wondered if any democracy could withstand it. He concluded that ultimately it is up to the people. They will decide whether they shall be free or not.
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" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
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5:25 pm
January 23, 2012
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Jarhead
| | Arkansas | |
| Diamond Apple | posts 2109 | |
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Post edited 5:27 pm – January 23, 2012 by Jarhead
We are like the Jews of the bible who asked God for a king.
Substitute government for king and here is a bibical prediction of what happens.
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God warns the Jews of having a King
And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you:
He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
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And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
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" The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
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9:10 pm
January 23, 2012
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Gallo
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| Bronze Apple | posts 732 | |
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This is what the naysayers argue:
The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has the following form:
1. X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed at the claim).
2. Therefore claim C is false.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
http://www.nizkor.org/features…..icule.html
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10:20 am
January 24, 2012
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MW
| | Over the Rainbow | |
| Silver Apple | posts 1386 | |
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We are like the Jews of the bible who asked God for a king.
Substitute government for king and here is a bibical prediction of what happens.
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God warns the Jews of having a King
And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you:
He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
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And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
Excellent biblical analysis. True now as it was then except that now, during the age of grace, Gentiles like us already have a king, He's just not ready to take the throne yet. Why O why do we claim such poor substitutes while we wait? -MW
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"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other." -Ben Franklin
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11:05 pm
January 26, 2012
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jamie
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| Golden Apple | posts 1647 | |
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I've put this up here and and my own blog and had no trolls try and respond. Of course my blog is small but I find the trolls only pick safe havens or just try and provoke a response at some of the bigger sites. I have to admit I take a small measure of glee of them trying to rectify the cognitive dissonance and normalcy bias. Quite a few say they don't want to live in a world of a total collapse. I think they will get thier wish in a slow and painful death via dehydration and starvation. I may get dead but I don't think it will because of lack of water,food, heat, or lack of sanitation.
I don't know it all and all of regulars here at the orchard give me things to think about if not always agree with at face value. We all have very different approaches to preparing and I have no idea what works or doesn't work. I think if we get a lot of input we can all find something that will work for everyone. Or an idea we may have never considered.
I know I don't know what will work in a full blown economic collapse. I have a few guesses and some ideas are just impossible based on where I'm at right now. But every bit I do to get ready for anything that can reasonably happen gives me a bit more time to find a fix for the "unthinkable" happening.
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